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Joined: 3/26/2014
Posts: 706
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Tim Taylor wrote:
There is no mode C veil. Are you talking about the DC SFRA (Special Flight Rules Area)? That was there before ADS-B came about and is NOT a Class C veil. Yes, there is special use airspace, restricted areas, prohibited areas, MOA's, TFR's, etc. around the country.
Basically, ADS-B is required everywhere mode C is required except it's also required over and under class C. I don't remember exactly, but I don't think mode C is required under class C.
Tim,
OK, I promise I will do more research, but everyone here is breifing "Mode C veil" for adsb airspace in 2020. it exists now and will continue to after 2020 but with more restrictions. By that I mean if a person does not have adsb out, you cannot fly in that area except with special permission from ATC. This will be the "new line" to keep non adsb folks OUT of the area so they are not a hazard. (even if they do have a transponder)
The Mode C veils allow ATC to sequence aircraft which are adbs equippped...simply using the class B or C is too restrictive and small to move big, fast planes around. This will not go away in 2020, but will be enforced by the FAA. Anyone going inside will be in violation of a FAR - that is what we are being told around here at airport meetings all over the NE, Tim.
For example, I cannot fly under or over a class C or B shelf after 2020...must have adsb to even be near them.
If what you are saying is ground truth, I will withdraw my statement about the airspace, as that is a major sticking point with many around here...
I think we simply disagree on this, but I promise to do more research as I am willing to admit I may be wrong.
I will try to contact my FSDO for a clarification, but would appreciate if others who might know for sure would please chime in on this dialog.
Most appreciated! Thanks for the great discussion.
Mike
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I fly regularly out a Mode C Veil. Both Tampa and Orlando have their own Mode C Veil. That is the Only airspace that ADS-B is mandated.
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Joined: 1/1/0001
Posts: 0
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§91.225 Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) Out equipment and use.
(a) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in Class A airspace unless the aircraft has equipment installed that—
(1) Meets the performance requirements in TSO-C166b, Extended Squitter Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) and Traffic Information Service-Broadcast (TIS-B) Equipment Operating on the Radio Frequency of 1090 Megahertz (MHz); and
(2) Meets the requirements of §91.227.
(b) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft below 18,000 feet MSL and in airspace described in paragraph (d) of this section unless the aircraft has equipment installed that—
(1) Meets the performance requirements in—
(i) TSO-C166b; or
(ii) TSO-C154c, Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B) Equipment Operating on the Frequency of 978 MHz;
(2) Meets the requirements of §91.227.
(c) Operators with equipment installed with an approved deviation under §21.618 of this chapter also are in compliance with this section.
(d) After January 1, 2020, and unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the following airspace unless the aircraft has equipment installed that meets the requirements in paragraph (b) of this section:
(1) Class B and Class C airspace areas;
(2) Except as provided for in paragraph (e) of this section, within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 to this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;
(3) Above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL;
(4) Except as provided in paragraph (e) of this section, Class E airspace within the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and
(5) Class E airspace at and above 3,000 feet MSL over the Gulf of Mexico from the coastline of the United States out to 12 nautical miles.
(e) The requirements of paragraph (b) of this section do not apply to any aircraft that was not originally certificated with an electrical system, or that has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, including balloons and gliders. These aircraft may conduct operations without ADS-B Out in the airspace specified in paragraphs (d)(2) and (d)(4) of this section. Operations authorized by this section must be conducted—
(1) Outside any Class B or Class C airspace area; and
(2) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport, or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower.
(f) Each person operating an aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out must operate this equipment in the transmit mode at all times.
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Joined: 1/1/0001
Posts: 0
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You're right, there is a 30 nm mode C ring around many of the Class C's. I guess I'll need to read the FAR for ADS-B and see what it says about that. I haven't seen anything saying ADS-B is required within a 30 nm ring around Class C.
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Joined: 1/1/0001
Posts: 0
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You can check these, but I think they are all primary Class B airports.
Appendix D to Part 91 — Airports/Locations: Special Operating Restrictions
Section 1. Locations at which the requirements of §91.215(b)(2) and §91.225(d)(2) apply. The requirements of §§91.215(b)(2) and 91.225(d)(2) apply below 10,000 feet above the surface within a 30-nautical-mile radius of each location in the following list.
Atlanta, GA (The William B. Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport)
Baltimore, MD (Baltimore Washington International Airport)
Boston, MA (General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport)
Chantilly, VA (Washington Dulles International Airport)
Charlotte, NC (Charlotte/Douglas International Airport)
Chicago, IL Chicago-O'Hare International Airport)
Cleveland, OH (Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport)
Covington, KY (Cincinnati Northern Kentucky International Airport)
Dallas, TX (Dallas/Fort Worth Regional Airport)
Denver, CO (Denver International Airport)
Detroit, MI (Metropolitan Wayne County Airport)
Honolulu, HI (Honolulu International Airport)
Houston, TX (George Bush Intercontinental Airport/Houston)
Kansas City, KS (Mid-Continent International Airport)
Las Vegas, NV (McCarran International Airport)
Los Angeles, CA (Los Angeles International Airport)
Memphis, TN (Memphis International Airport)
Miami, FL (Miami International Airport)
Minneapolis, MN (Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport)
Newark, NJ (Newark International Airport)
New Orleans, LA (New Orleans International Airport-Moisant Field)
New York, NY (John F. Kennedy International Airport)
New York, NY (LaGuardia Airport)
Orlando, FL (Orlando International Airport)
Philadelphia, PA (Philadelphia International Airport)
Phoenix, AZ (Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport)
Pittsburgh, PA (Greater Pittsburgh International Airport)
St. Louis, MO (Lambert-St. Louis International Airport)
Salt Lake City, UT (Salt Lake City International Airport)
San Diego, CA (San Diego International Airport)
San Francisco, CA (San Francisco International Airport)
Seattle, WA (Seattle-Tacoma International Airport)
Tampa, FL (Tampa International Airport)
Washington, DC (Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport and Andrews Air Force Base, MD)
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