iFly GPS Forum

We have a new Forum!  Go here to get started: https://adventurepilot.community.forum.  
The new forum is easier to use and much more capable than the old, we hope you will join our community! 

Below is a copy of the old forum. This will remain available for a short period so you can access and review the information contained here. To continue a conversation, or start a new one, please register and create a post at our new forum location.
HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsiFly Owners Q&AiFly Owners Q&AOTG & SDR ADSBOTG & SDR ADSB
Previous
 
Next
New Post
10/18/2015 10:42 AM
 
I am reading about budget ADSB using OTG Dongles and SDRs to receive traffic with various tablets and phones. Would such a setup work with my new iFly 740? Thanks Paul Salome, AZ

Paul Indian Hills Airpark Salome, AZ
 
New Post
10/18/2015 1:01 PM
 
The STRATUX units are cheap receivers (check another thread in the forums - talked about extensively) HOWEVER, unless you have ADS-B "OUT", you will not see most traffic. Don't be fooled by the advertisers who talk about weather and traffic with their "receiver-only" units. They are promoting false security.

Ron
 
New Post
10/18/2015 5:22 PM
 

Ron,

The FAA published a paper on 3/31/2015 about changes late this year to TIS-B coverage for everyone; on page three the summary reads:

FAA Changes to the TIS-B service in late 2015 and early 2016
TIS-B Target Status logic will be modified to uplink TIS-B messages for ADS-B NPE aircraft as soon as
possible; this is currently planned for operational rollout by the end of 2015. Though this may result in ghosting
of some NPE targets for uncertified ADS-B-In systems, it will address the immediate safety concern.
Manufacturers of uncertified ADS-B-In systems have over a year to modify their systems appropriately to avoid
ghosting.
TIS-B/ADS-R Client Status logic will be modified to only provide TIS-B/ADS-R client status to aircraft
broadcasting ADS-B with NACp>4, NACv>0, SDA>0, SIL>0, and NIC>4. These criteria are aligned with the
requirements of TSO-C199 and should remove the incentives for NPE use. Establishing a consistent FAA
performance “floor” for ADS-B systems will make more efficient and appropriate use of aeronautical protected
spectrum. FAA will make this TIS-B/ADS-R Client Status change effective on or after 4-Jan-2016, allowing more
than one year for industry to modify their uncertified products and notify customers appropriately.
The results of these changes will be:
(1) All ADS-B-In systems will see other aircraft equipped with ADS-B Out and transponders in areas with FAA radar/WAM coverage (complete & accurate traffic picture)
(2) Compared to the current state, aeronautical protected spectrum will be more efficiently used
(3) FAA will eliminate the current incentive for operators to equip with ADS-B Out systems that are not
compatible with certified ADS-B-In systems

Some don't believe this and say it is just a confusing paper, well it may be, but in the last month or so in the North Georgia patch I'm seeing a significant increase in the traffic targets seen with ADS-B in on 978UAT only. See the attached screen shot from today from my Nexus 7 with a $13 SDR dongle. No Stratux involved, just the tablet, an OTG cable, and a cheap SDR. I'm also seeing the identical traffic on my '720 with the original SkyRadar, but it's not capable of a screen shot. My Stratux works equally as well plus it is dual channel.

It seems to me that the FAA has recently made the changes (at least here) that are described in the letter.

Just my take......

David


C177RG: iFly 720, Stratux 978/1090 ADS-B in, AHRS, BMP, Stratus ESG ADS-B out. RV-3: 8" Samsung Tab A, Stratux 978/1090 ADS-B in, AHRS, BMP, Stratus ESG ADS-B out.
 
 Screenshot_2015-10-17-10-56-45.jpg
New Post
10/18/2015 6:13 PM
 

As I read this, effective 1/4/2016 there will be two changes. First, non-certified ADS-B out will no longer trigger the ground stations. Second, non-certified ADS-B out aircraft will be included in the traffic data sent from the ground station to aircraft with CERTIFIED ADS-B in/out.

 
New Post
10/18/2015 7:05 PM
 

This is what Don posted on his skyGuard forum:

"All:
As some of you may recently have learned, the FAA has decided to throw a “curve ball” to all the ADS-B Transceiver manufactures and their customers. There was a recent notification on the FAA WEB site that states the ADS-B TIS-B Traffic Client policy and methodology will be changed sometime in early 2016. We first learned of this about 3 weeks ago when one of our customers sent me the document. Without getting too technical, what the policy change defines is that any ADS-B transmitter that is currently transmitting with SDA and SIL parameters set to zero will no longer be identified as a TIS-B Traffic Client and the ADS-B ground station towers will no longer transmit that aircrafts surrounding traffic targets back up to that aircrafts ADS-B IN receivers. Of course this was a big shock to us as most all of our Transceivers and Transmitters have SDA and SIL parameters set to zero. This is what the FAA directed us to do over 2 years ago when we first started shipping our products. The intent then was for ATC to see these 2 parameters and knowing they were zero, would not use the ADS-B transmissions for aircraft separation in controlled airspace until we could achieve TSO-C154c certification. Upon TSO certification, we would update these parameters to values indicating a TSO certified unit. Now, according to the FAA, they have done a recent analysis and found that approx. 40% of the aircraft containing ADS-B Transmitters are flying with incorrectly installed or incorrectly configured ADS-B units. We believe the FAA enacted this policy change to force pilots to correct their installation/configuration. Unfortunately, SkyGuardTWX has gotten caught up in this new policy. Upon learning of this information, I immediately called my contacts within the FAA Washington office to understand why this was being done. As I suspected, the FAA is cracking down on aircraft with improperly installed/configured ADS-B Transmitters. And they are using the TIS-B traffic service as leverage to force corrections. Of course I had further conversations with the FAA to help develop a plan for our existing customers to continue to receive TIS-B client services while we continue to work on our TSO certification. After much discussion, the FAA is going to allow us to use an “alternate” GPS position source where we can set the SDA and SIL parameters to numbers greater than zero but NOT as a fully TSO’d position source. This GPS is “rule compliant” with 5hz position updates and will support both an internal active antenna as well as an externally mounted active antenna. This will allow our units to continue to receive TIS-B traffic client services after the enacted policy change. Unfortunately, this will require most of our customers to send back their units for a GPS swap and firmware update. Even though, we consider this issue as caused by the FAA reneging on their original directions to us, we want to support our customers as much as possible, so we have decided to split the cost of the GPS hardware with our customers. The customer pays half and we pay half of the GPS and associated parts cost, and we perform the upgrade for no labor costs. The cost of the GPS and parts is approx. $100, so our customers would pay $50 plus their return shipping costs. We will pay for the remaining $50 in parts, perform the labor to install it, and the shipping cost to get the updated units back to our customers. We fully intend to pursue the TSO-C154c certification using this “alternate GPS”. One thing I want to be perfectly clear on is this “alternate GPS” has not been TSO certified by the FAA and therefore there is some possibility that another GPS swap might be required to meet the overall TSO-C154c certification requirement at a later date. When it comes to the FAA, one can never be sure what will change!
We will soon be contacting our customers in groups and notifying them of this GPS update so they can send in their units. The FAA has “assured me” this TIS-B policy change will happen no sooner than Jan 1, 2016 and could be later until it is actually implemented. Please remember that we have approx. 300 affected units in the field that could be updated so it will take all our resources to get this done prior to Jan 1, 2016. If any customers do not want to take advantage of this update, then their Transceivers will still operate as ADS-B IN receivers. Thank you for your patience with us and your support of SkyGuardTWX products.

Sincerely,
Don Houtz
SkyGuardTWX"

 
Previous
 
Next
HomeHomeDiscussionsDiscussionsiFly Owners Q&AiFly Owners Q&AOTG & SDR ADSBOTG & SDR ADSB