SkyGuard TWX and the FAA - iFly General Discussions

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SkyGuard TWX and the FAA

6/25/2015 10:55 AM

Frank Parker

Joined: 3/12/2014

Posts: 282

Re: SkyGuard TWX and the FAA

That appears to be so. But wouldn't common sense have dictated that was the way to do it at the outset?

6/25/2015 11:26 AM

Joined: 1/1/0001

Posts: 0

Re: SkyGuard TWX and the FAA Modified By on 6/25/2015 11:27:32 AM

Except now there is no incentive to get ADS-B out before it is mandated in 2020. Sometimes there is more than common sense involved.

6/25/2015 11:46 AM

Shane

Joined: 4/21/2010

Posts: 1709

Re: SkyGuard TWX and the FAA

That is the way I interpret it too. But my understanding of the ADS-B TIS-B system doesn't support a "blanket broadcast" due to bandwidth constraints. Maybe the are upgrading the system? I've already spoken with Don with SkyGuardTWX and also reaching out to NavWorx and others to get some additional clarification.

At this point I'd recommend keeping an eye on each ADS-B manufacturers site as they should be providing more information as it comes available. Don at SkyGuardTWX stated he would be providing more information once he gets more clarification from the FAA.

Shane Woodson
Vice President | Adventure Pilot LLC.

6/25/2015 12:11 PM

Demo Dude

Joined: 12/31/2014

Posts: 22

Re: SkyGuard TWX and the FAA

I must respectfully disagree with y'all.

But first, can we agree that it is a horribly written paper?

The FAA seems obsessed over non-compliant ADS-B Out aircraft not being seen by compliant aircraft, so they want to remove the incentive to buy non-compliant solutions and incent people to buy compliant ADS-B Out. This has been the case since day 1.

Non-compliant ADS-B Out "pings" ground stations for broadcast of FIS-B data (traffic), which has been the incentive to purchased non-compliant ADS-B Out. As I recall, the paper says that 15-40% of ADS-B Out is non-compliant today, and the FAA is not amused. That marginalizes the investment in compliant ADS-B Out since non-compliant aircraft are not seen...one of the principle benefits of investing in (compliant) ADS-B, i.e., seeing all aircraft, including when outside radar coverage. The whole benefit of ADS-B is that you see everybody. Indeed, that has been the argument on this forum to purchase (non-compliant) ADS-B Out solutions as opposed to just an ADS-B In receiver.

So, the FAA is looking to remove the incentive to buy non-compliant ADB-B Out. It looks like their disincentive is to, by year's end, disable non-complaint ADS-B Out solutions from pinging the ground stations, rendering these devices to being expensive ADS-B In receivers. Given the FAA's concern for non-complaint aircraft not being seen by compliant aircraft, opening up FIS-B for all makes no sense; that does not incent anyone to purchase compliant ADS-B Out...which is what the FAA is after.

If I was Mr. FAA, and I was writing this paper, I would have replaced the 3 pages of mumbo jumbo with something very short and clear, such as "Non-compliant ADS-B Out transmitters will no longer ping ground stations for FIS-B data by December 31, 2015".

Anyway, that's how I read the paper (I could be wrong; it has happened before) and that is consistent with the FAA's stubborn position on FIS-B, and consistent with the paper's obsession with non-compliant aircraft not being seen in aircraft owned by people who have made the investment in compliant ADS-B Out.

6/25/2015 1:12 PM

Joined: 1/1/0001

Posts: 0

Re: SkyGuard TWX and the FAA Modified By on 6/25/2015 6:02:55 PM

"TIS-B Target Status logic will be modified to uplink TIS-B messages for ADS-B NPE aircraft as soon as possible; this is currently planned for operational rollout by the end of 2015. Though this may result in ghosting of some NPE targets for uncertified ADS-B-In systems, it will address the immediate safety concern. Manufacturers of uncertified ADS-B-In systems have over a year to modify their systems appropriately to avoid ghosting. TIS-B/ADS-R Client Status logic will be modified to only provide TIS-B/ADS-R client status to aircraft broadcasting ADS-B with NACp>4, NACv>0, SDA>0, SIL>0, and NIC>4. These criteria are aligned with the requirements of TSO-C199 and should remove the incentives for NPE use. Establishing a consistent FAA performance “floor” for ADS-B systems will make more efficient and appropriate use of aeronautical protected spectrum. FAA will make this TIS-B/ADS-R Client Status change effective on or after 4-Jan-2016, allowing more than one year for industry to modify their uncertified products and notify customers appropriately."

This is the pertinant statement. My reading is they are implementing 2 changes by the end of 2015. First, non-certified ADS-B aircraft images will be included in the uplink from the ground stations making them visable to certified ADS-B aircraft. Second, non-certified ADS-B out will no long trigger the ground station.

Our portable ADS-B out units will be useless.

EDIT: Don at SkyGuard said he is trying to get clarification from the FAA and will post on his forum when he gets it.

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