Emal current iFly location from iPad or android....maybe even a

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Emal current iFly location from iPad or android....maybe even automatic?

9/30/2014 10:48 AM

ComputerDoc

Joined: 4/1/2012

Posts: 269

Re: Emal current iFly location from iPad or android....maybe even automatic?

Tinker wrote in part:

.. if the lat/long were accompanied by a time stamp, then the message would not be ambiguous regardless of when sent. So that would be fine.

In fact, riffing on the thoughts today, iFly could send a complete KML file. There is syntax in KML defined to allow time-stamped track files. This could make iFly a competitor to SPOT, ignoring the current fact of FCC prohibition of having the phone turned on in flight. It could be sold as an add-on application, so generate some revenue as well.

The only caveat on these ideas may be that recipients have to understand that the airplane may "disappear" for extended periods of time due to lack of cell phone connectivity.....

------------

The other related caveat is this should not be thought of as a complete substitute for a SPOT or InReach tracker, let alone for a 406MHz ELT or 406MHz personal locator beacon. Those send their OUTGOING locations thru the satellite system and are virtually never unable to do so. Especially the ELTs and PLBs with their stronger outgoing signals.

If what I call the log file is the same as the KLM file ..... Yeah, we're on the same wavelenght. I had already, shortly before your last post I think, also suggested that be sent out. They're tiny ...... typically an hour of flight generates about a 100K log file packed with location, altitude, time, speed, and direction info. Complete track.

But given that it probably is not a very difficult software development project, and would add noticable value and safety to iFly for many users and buyers (sort of free built in SPOT that requires no separate additional subscription fee to work) IMO it's definitally pretty high on the wish list.

Shane? Where is it on YOUR wish list?

Alex

9/30/2014 12:29 PM

Tinker

Joined: 2/9/2014

Posts: 109

Re: Emal current iFly location from iPad or android....maybe even automatic?

Re " ... 406MHz ELT or 406MHz personal locator beacon. Those send their OUTGOING locations thru the satellite system and are virtually never unable to do so. Especially the ELTs and PLBs with their stronger outgoing signals. ..."

Wearing my SAR hat, I just want to make sure people understand that these location devices have their shortcomings too. The stats that I have seen on ELTs are that about 60% of the time they trigger and transmit a useful signal. Among the things that make the number that low are severe crashes that destroy the ELT, dead batteries, crashes that put the antenna under the airplane or under water, etc. For PLBs of course someone has to be in good enough shape to trigger them and the PLB has to be accessible to the person. So redundancy is good and another squirt of data that an iFly might successfully send is good too.

Re KML, sorry I wasn't clear. KML is the native format for Google Earth files. Just double-click the attached file in the email and GE should pop up and show all. I know that KML can represent postion, time, and altitude. Not sure about airspeed or ETA, but these could be in the text part of the message if the KML syntax doesn't give them a home.

9/30/2014 5:06 PM

Vaughn Simon

Joined: 2/19/2014

Posts: 27

Re: Emal current iFly location from iPad or android....maybe even automatic?

Tinker wrote:

Despite it being a violation of FCC rules against leaving cell phones turned on...

That's often repeated, but I don't believe that it's true. That FCC rule against using cellphones while airborne only applies to the original 800 Mhz cell phone band, not the frequencies our phones use today. As far as the FCC is concerned, you can use your phone in your private airplane. But lack of illegality doesn't make it a good practice!

Your phone carrier greatly dislikes for you to use your phone while aloft because you can tie up multiple sites. One way they discourage airborne use is by using antennas that are very insensitive to signals arriving from above. For that reason, you will never be able to count on good phone coverage while you are in the air (assuming that you are using the normal ground network)

Vaughn Simon Nexus 7 with Dual XGPS170

9/30/2014 5:20 PM

Tinker

Joined: 2/9/2014

Posts: 109

Re: Emal current iFly location from iPad or android....maybe even automatic?

Do you have a CFR cite on that FCC rule? I would be interested to know for sure what the rule is. My engineering guess is that it dates from analog days where a phone could tie up multiple sites, but now with the smarts in the digital network the sites should be able to resolve the issues among themselves. That argues for your information being right, but I'd still like to see the cite.

Re antenna design, I seriously doubt that the cell site antenna designs were done with any consideration of airborne cell phones, since those would be such a tiny fraction. But they are very interested in not wasting transmission RF energy or wasting receive sensitivity in areas where they will not hear anyone anyway. So they will be forming their beams so that the antenna is optimized where it is needed -- at ground level. Anything going upward is wasted. So the effect is the same even if the anti-air intent is not there.

9/30/2014 6:43 PM

Vaughn Simon

Joined: 2/19/2014

Posts: 27

Re: Emal current iFly location from iPad or android....maybe even automatic?

Tinker:
The oft-cited rule is from PART 22—PUBLIC MOBILE SERVICES

"§22.925 Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones: Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any aircraft: “The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.”"

The above sounds very damming and certain, but a closer examination of the entire rule shows you that 22.900 only applies to the 800 frequencies. See below!

§22.905 Channels for cellular service:"The following frequency bands are allocated for assignment to service providers in the Cellular Radiotelephone Service.
(a) Channel Block A: 869-880 MHz paired with 824-835 MHz, and 890-891.5 MHz paired with 845-846.5 MHz.
(b) Channel Block B: 880-890 MHz paired with 835-845 MHz, and 891.5-894 MHz paired with 846.5-849 MHz."

To be fair, I haven't proven my case yet, because I haven't proven the negative. That is, I haven't proven that there aren't other rules similar to 22.925 in other parts of the FCC regs that cover GSM and other bands that might be used by phones. However, I have seen it said many times it print that their aren't, and I before my retirement I was in the communications biz.

As for antenna design, I agree that you caught me in an oversimplification. Phone networks use antennas with a very low angle of radiation because that's where their customers are, and because that reduces interactions between different sites (which share the same channels). Reducing coverage to those troublesome airborne users is just a nice side benefit to them.

Vaughn Simon Nexus 7 with Dual XGPS170

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Emal current iFly location from iPad or android....maybe even automatic?

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