iFly GPS Forum

>Why not get with the program and equip your aircraft with ADS-B out? Anyone who can afford to own or fly an airplane can afford to equip with ADS-B out. I realize there are those who will resist anything our government tries to do, but the train has left the station.<

Just to add to the point made already that the "mode S" train left the station as well, but was called back. NexGen/ADS-B, initially was intended to get rid of all RADAR. I think they've called that part of the train back to the station as well, because at least with RADAR, the FAA can track primary targets if the bad guys decide to turn off their transponders/ADSB-out and fly their Now Stealth Piper, Cessna, or Boeing wherever they want with NexRad/ADS-B invisibility. What other parts of this train are also going to be recalled? Perhaps none, perhaps the FAA will find a fly in the ointment and create a new ADS-B II to rectify that problem and we'll have to invest in another new box. For example, what happens in 2019, when almost everyone is equipped, we have some extended solar storm that knocks out, or otherwise degrades the GPS signals?

I don't know what others think, but it sure looks like this mandate was influenced by someone wanting the industry to make money, as much as it was influenced by the quest for safety. If the FAA only wanted everyone to adopt quickly, they could/would have put out a bid, for an ADS-B out box that would be no larger than some small size (say, 1"x 5" x 6"), have it's own GPS, with RAIM, acquire altitude information from the Mode C transmitter, have industry standard power and data input and outputs to integrate into whatever avionics, and perhaps an internal battery to allow itself to self power for X minutes/hours in the event the ships power goes out. All of this would be able to be installed by the aircraft owner (if he desired) and simply signed off by a certified mechanic. The entire design, including specifications, etc. would be public domain. The FAA would then purchase, and resell (removing the corporation(s) from liability) these devices to pilots for (since Stratux can be had for around $100) about $200, and that should allow for a few dollars to go to the FAA to defray the cost of operation.

Although we haven't yet put ADS-B out, or in in our plane, I like the concept. I think it is great to be able to have (almost) live weather, (almost) live traffic, no "RADAR" dead zones, and tracking to the ground. Actually, as much as I dislike government mandates, I'd almost be in favor of them requiring every aircraft, flying anywhere in the U.S. to have these devices. There seems to be no down side, other than to those that don't want the black helicopters to be able to track them. It would seem to be a huge help to SAR. If we had 100% ADS-B requirement and equippage years ago, we may have found Steve Fosset before the bear (or whatever) did. We'd probably know exactly where to look for that plane that disappeared around Catalina Island a while ago.

Using the FOIA to request these data is novel, but not likely to succeed. I'm curious: Under what paragraph of that act do you think the FAA is obligated to provide you the ADSB-out data you're requesting, Mike?

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/te...

Paragraphs a.1 and a.2 spell out the sorts of information that are required to be routinely published or otherwise made available, and paragraph a.3 refers to any additional sorts of information...provided that there is an established procedure for requesting it. ADSB data doesn't seem to fall into any of those categories.

But paragraph f.2 is really the deal-breaker, I think:

This paragraph defines what "information" means in the context of the entire "Freedom of Information Act". I don't think live ADSB data is contained within that definition, as it's not a "record" (or at least you are not requesting the recorded version of the data), nor does it fall into the categories of the previously-mentioned paragraphs.

In short, there is no provision in the FOIA that requires any agency to provide their data at the instant the requested data is created, nor is there any requirement to provide requested data continuously, ad-infinitum.

However, if I'm wrong and ADSB data *do* fall under that f.2 definition, then I think the FAA has already met their FOIA obligations via paragraph a.3:

There are "published rules" including the "time, place, and procedures to be followed" for how to make a real-time ADSB data request: At any time day or night, any day of the year, you put yourself within two-way comm range of an ADSB tower and use ADSB out+in equipment to transmit the request and receive the response.

While there are provisions in the next paragraph for the agency to provide the requested data "in any form or format requested" as long as that format is readily available, there are no provisions in the FOIA for the requestor to dictate the time, place, or procedures to be followed to request the data.